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Opened 10 years ago

Last modified 4 years ago

#5478 new task

Translation of Trac to Russian/Русский [ru_RU]

Reported by: asmodai@… Owned by:
Priority: normal Milestone: translations
Component: i18n Version: devel
Severity: normal Keywords: l10n russian
Cc: dmitriy.lopatko@…, sergeych@…, lustin@…, lit-uriy@…, a.a.vykhodtsev@…, gavenkoa@…, alexey.rudy@…, vsafronovich@…, capiv@…, elnur.home@…, al.prudnikov@…, pnzhdin@…
Release Notes:
API Changes:

Description

This ticket should be used to coordinate the translation to Russian/Русский. See also TracTermsRu.

Attachments (22)

patch_from_6960.txt.gz (3.1 KB ) - added by antonbatenev@… 10 years ago.
patch_to_rev_6968-6982_2.zip (19.6 KB ) - added by DyachenkoA@… 10 years ago.
More Russian translation (Patch to rev 6982)
patch-from-7021.diff (2.4 KB ) - added by lvk@… 10 years ago.
messages.po (108.3 KB ) - added by alexander.sigachov@… 9 years ago.
translation update
messages_7455.patch.tar.gz (89.3 KB ) - added by alexey.lustin <lustin@…> 9 years ago.
gziped patch to translation on revission 7455 (710 strings, 54 fuzzy, 0 errors, 0 untranslate)
patch_from_r7733.diff (12.5 KB ) - added by antonbatenev@… 9 years ago.
Translate some untranslated strings and mark it as fuzzy, cosmetic fixes already translated
patch_from_r7751.diff (19.3 KB ) - added by antonbatenev@… 9 years ago.
Translate some untranslated strings and mark it as fuzzy, minor fixes already translated strings
patch_from_r7837.diff (14.9 KB ) - added by alexey.rudy@… 9 years ago.
some lexical misstakes fixed, translation for term 'Ticket' changed
patch_from_r8159.diff (21.8 KB ) - added by Alexey Kinyov <alexey.rudy@…> 9 years ago.
More fixes, ready for use, just some strings not translated
ru_RU.po (115.8 KB ) - added by capiv@… 8 years ago.
Вот что у меня получилось для вчерашнего транка
ru.po (139.1 KB ) - added by capiv@… 8 years ago.
updated from today's trunk
patch_from_r9161.diff (184.9 KB ) - added by elnur <elnur.home@…> 8 years ago.
This is the result of my today's work.
patch_from_r9161_new.diff (200.5 KB ) - added by elnur <elnur.home@…> 8 years ago.
A revised patch of my today's work. Commit early, commit often, right? :)
patch-report.py-from-9162.diff (647 bytes ) - added by elnur <elnur.home@…> 8 years ago.
Adds a missing % sign.
patch-main.py-r9163.diff (610 bytes ) - added by elnur <elnur.home@…> 8 years ago.
Made a string translatable.
patch-translation-r9163.diff (203.3 KB ) - added by elnur <elnur.home@…> 8 years ago.
messages_9164.diff (217.0 KB ) - added by 4glitch@… 8 years ago.
I glad to see you merged multirepos into trunk, i corrected my variant
patch-translation-r9164.diff (208.2 KB ) - added by elnur <elnur.home@…> 8 years ago.
patch-translation-ru-r9179.diff (198.3 KB ) - added by elnur <elnur.home@…> 8 years ago.
The result of today's work. Added 105 translations.
patch-translation-ru-r9180.diff (207.1 KB ) - added by elnur <elnur.home@…> 8 years ago.
The result of today's work. The translation is 72% ready.
ru.messages.po (163.3 KB ) - added by Christian Boos 8 years ago.
Contributions from Alexandr Prudnikov on top of r9433
ru.r9433.diff (93.3 KB ) - added by al.prudnikov@… 8 years ago.
New changes on top of r9433

Change History (156)

comment:1 Changed 10 years ago by asmodai@…

Keywords: russian added

comment:2 Changed 10 years ago by Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven

Milestone: not applicable0.12
Owner: changed from Jonas Borgström to Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven

comment:3 Changed 10 years ago by anonymous

Помочь может чем?

comment:4 Changed 10 years ago by Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven

As soon as a first version is committed I would need a native speaker to check the file and fix all my mistakes and fill in more information.

comment:5 Changed 10 years ago by Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven

Status: newassigned

comment:6 Changed 10 years ago by anonymous

Cc: dmitriy.lopatko@… added

comment:7 Changed 10 years ago by sergeych <sergeych@…>

I've started the translation. 1/3 is ready, gonna finish it within the next week. How can I see the result? Sometimes I can't translate phrase fragment without seeing the while thing. Instructions needed.

When I've tried to attach the path to this page, got the following error:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/trac/web/main.py", line 406, in dispatch_request
    dispatcher.dispatch(req)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/trac/web/main.py", line 237, in dispatch
    resp = chosen_handler.process_request(req)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/trac/attachment.py", line 361, in process_request
    self._do_save(req, attachment)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/trac/attachment.py", line 477, in _do_save
    for field, message in manipulator.validate_attachment(req, attachment):
  File "build/bdist.linux-x86_64/egg/tracspamfilter/adapters.py", line 135, in validate_attachment
  File "build/bdist.linux-x86_64/egg/tracspamfilter/api.py", line 133, in test
  File "build/bdist.linux-x86_64/egg/tracspamfilter/model.py", line 135, in insert
  File "/usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/trac/db/util.py", line 50, in execute
    return self.cursor.execute(sql_escape_percent(sql), args)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/trac/db/util.py", line 50, in execute
    return self.cursor.execute(sql_escape_percent(sql), args)
ProgrammingError: current transaction is aborted, commands ignored until end of transaction block

Will try later.

comment:8 Changed 10 years ago by sergeych <sergeych@…>

Cc: sergeych@… added

comment:9 Changed 10 years ago by sergeych <sergeych@…>

The translation is ready, but I can't attch it because of #5848 (just reported it). Please contact me at sergeych@… so I could send it using email, etc.

comment:10 in reply to:  9 Changed 10 years ago by cyberpunk@…

Replying to sergeych <sergeych@tancher.com>:

The translation is ready, but I can't attch it because of #5848 (just reported it). Please contact me at sergeych@… so I could send it using email, etc.

Can you upload it to any of free file hosting systems like rapidshare.com, and post link here?

comment:12 Changed 10 years ago by Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven

I already committed part of your patch, but that's the part that applied cleanly. Another part of your patch failed to apply cleanly. I will rework that by hand.

comment:13 Changed 10 years ago by sergeych <sergeych@…>

In the case I used not oldest revision, I've updated it to 6017 and made new pacth:

http://dev.tancher.ru/patch_from_6017.txt

comment:14 Changed 10 years ago by Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven

Oh cool, you beat me to it. I have committed it in r6018.

comment:15 Changed 10 years ago by Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven

By the way, got a full name that I could use for the THANKS file? (And depending on if you want to be the ru_RU maintainer you might want to update the messages.po header and replace my details with yours.)

comment:16 Changed 10 years ago by sergeych <sergeych@…>

Full name: Sergey S. Chernov. Yes, I'd like to maintain ru_RU; I'm using te Trac alot and love it (and python too). Is there anything else I should do to this translation?

comment:17 Changed 10 years ago by cyberpunk@…

Version: 0.10.3.1

Is there any step by step instructions on how to patch existing English trac 0.10.3.1 installation to Russian?

comment:18 Changed 10 years ago by Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven

Version: 0.10.3.1devel

This ticket is for development only for working towards the next version 0.12 where this will be integrated. Your question would be better asked on the mailinglist.

comment:19 Changed 10 years ago by Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven

Sergey,

just make sure you provide a patch for the header of the .po which says you are the Last Translator and such details.

comment:20 Changed 10 years ago by havator@…

Hello!

Tell me,please is translation finished?

Sergey Kravtsov

comment:21 Changed 10 years ago by Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven

Until 0.12 is frozen for release the translation will need to be checked and updated constantly. But right now a lot of text has been translated and could be used for test deployments in Russian, yes. But as always: it's development code.

comment:22 Changed 10 years ago by Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven

Component: generali18n

comment:23 Changed 10 years ago by alexey.lustin <lustin@…>

how will be build translate the standart WikiPage (for example WikiFormatting ?

for our user i've translate some WikiPage to Russian, may be it will be needed to somebody?

with best regards, Alexey A. Lustin (Lipetsk, Russia)

comment:24 Changed 10 years ago by Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven

Wiki pages depends on #1513. At the moment this is not scheduled for 0.12.

comment:26 Changed 10 years ago by Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven

Committed in r6960. Thanks.

Next time, please attach them to the ticket.

comment:27 in reply to:  26 Changed 10 years ago by antonbatenev@…

Replying to jruigrok:

Next time, please attach them to the ticket.

Oops, sorry.

So, I looked translation more carefully - it is ugly ;) Some words translated literary, but not used in IT community.

Here some changes which make translation and UI-view slightly better (lowercase also looks better). Step by step I'll send patches for full translation.

comment:28 Changed 10 years ago by antonbatenev@…

I can not attach patch :(

Trac sad: "ProgrammingError: current transaction is aborted, commands ignored until end of transaction block"

comment:29 Changed 10 years ago by Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven

They're currently investigating this, it's partially due to anti-spam measures, but I guess it doesn't like translation files. Will let you know as soon as it is fixed, sorry for the delay.

Changed 10 years ago by antonbatenev@…

Attachment: patch_from_6960.txt.gz added

comment:30 Changed 10 years ago by anonymous

Wow! GZIP file attached successfully!

comment:31 Changed 10 years ago by Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven

Thanks for the file Anton, I am a bit confused though. In a lot of cases your have lowercased the first word of partial sentences, is this common for Russian where it concerns websites? I mean, I know a lot of languages do not follow English' use of Studly Caps (like my own language), but quite often they do capitalize the first letter of a partial sentence.

Furthermore you replaced both Смотреть Карточки (View Tickets) and Имеющиеся отчёты (Available Reports) with just отчеты, this seems a bit of a overly enthusiastic simplification?

Some others do seem to capture the spirit of the terms better.

I'd like to hear from some fellow Russian speakers what they think.

Changed 10 years ago by DyachenkoA@…

More Russian translation (Patch to rev 6982)

comment:32 Changed 10 years ago by DyachenkoA@…

I think that lowercase is not good idea.

comment:33 in reply to:  32 Changed 10 years ago by dmitriy.lopatko@…

Replying to DyachenkoA@gmail.ru:

I think that lowercase is not good idea.

+1 on this

Changed 10 years ago by lvk@…

Attachment: patch-from-7021.diff added

comment:34 Changed 10 years ago by alexey.lustin <lustin@…>

Cc: lustin@… added

comment:35 Changed 10 years ago by lit-uriy@…

Cc: lit-uriy@… added

comment:36 Changed 10 years ago by Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven

lvk: Applied in r7141. Spasibo.

comment:37 Changed 9 years ago by Christian Boos

Milestone: 0.130.12

Changed 9 years ago by alexander.sigachov@…

Attachment: messages.po added

translation update

comment:38 Changed 9 years ago by a.a.vykhodtsev@…

Cc: a.a.vykhodtsev@… added

comment:39 Changed 9 years ago by alexey.lustin <lustin@…>

вопрос ко всем рускоязычным пользователям

может имеет смысл немного автоматизировать процесс локализации

например svn репозиторий проекта как пример можно посмотреть здесь
http://code.google.com/p/ru-trac-translation/

тогда обсуждение по терминам и вообще использования Trac
для начала можно осуществить в группах Гугла например http://code.google.com/p/ru-trac-translation/

PS на бразды правление не претендую - просто очень хочется подстегнуть вопросы локализации

comment:40 Changed 9 years ago by alexey.lustin <lustin@…>

some comment (eng) I think lack of full i18n support is a factor which stop evolution of Trac (rus) Я думаю что отсутствие полной локализации тормозит развитие Trac

Changed 9 years ago by alexey.lustin <lustin@…>

Attachment: messages_7455.patch.tar.gz added

gziped patch to translation on revission 7455 (710 strings, 54 fuzzy, 0 errors, 0 untranslate)

comment:41 Changed 9 years ago by kossmak@…

Добавил перевод в статью TranslationRu/TracWiki (version 21). Может быть удалить абзац Russian words, если никому не нужен? Также добавил перевод TranslationRu/WikiNewPageRu, TranslationRu/WikiFormattingRu. По мере возможности, постараюсь еще перевести что-нибудь из wiki руководства.

I add translation on page TranslationRu/TracWiki (version 21). Can be delete block Russian words unless nobody needs? Has also added translation TranslationRu/WikiNewPageRu, TranslationRu/WikiFormattingRu.

Changed 9 years ago by antonbatenev@…

Attachment: patch_from_r7733.diff added

Translate some untranslated strings and mark it as fuzzy, cosmetic fixes already translated

comment:42 Changed 9 years ago by Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven

Committed in r7737. Spasibo.

Changed 9 years ago by antonbatenev@…

Attachment: patch_from_r7751.diff added

Translate some untranslated strings and mark it as fuzzy, minor fixes already translated strings

comment:43 Changed 9 years ago by gavenkoa@…

Cc: gavenkoa@… added

comment:44 Changed 9 years ago by anatoly techtonik <techtonik@…>

First: why not to setup russian trac instead of Google Code? Second: ticket as card is inappropriate translation - it will make a huge gap in communication between users who use english interface and users who use russian

Changed 9 years ago by alexey.rudy@…

Attachment: patch_from_r7837.diff added

some lexical misstakes fixed, translation for term 'Ticket' changed

comment:45 Changed 9 years ago by anonymous

Предлагаю заменить перевод 'Ticket' на 'Задача' и не заморачиваться с тем, что перевод пересекается с типом задачи (bug - "баг", task - тоже "задача", можно "задание"). Термины должны быть адекватные, а то выносит мозг. Так же, поправил несколько не совсем русских формулировок.

I suggest to replace translation for term 'Ticket', current translation confuses much and really uncommon! Generally Russian developers prefer use English terms, but there are less or more generic translations. There is for example CoMindWork.com project made by Russians in Russan language (as far as English), we can use terms like there.

comment:46 in reply to:  45 ; Changed 9 years ago by alexey.rudy@…

It was my suggestion. I've attached patch_from_r7837.diff

comment:47 Changed 9 years ago by alexey.rudy@…

Cc: alexey.rudy@… added

comment:48 in reply to:  46 Changed 9 years ago by anonymous

Replying to alexey.rudy@…:

It was my suggestion. I've attached patch_from_r7837.diff

3259 msgstr "Вы уже залонинены как пользователь %(user)s."

Залогинены - слэнг, который желательно использовать лишь в крайних случаях :). Может быть лучше подойдут варианты?: "Вы уже выполнили вход как пользователь %(user)s." "Вы уже вошли как пользователь %(user)s."

comment:49 in reply to:  45 ; Changed 9 years ago by anonymous

Replying to anonymous:

Предлагаю заменить перевод 'Ticket' на 'Задача' и не заморачиваться с тем, что перевод пересекается с типом задачи (bug - "баг", task - тоже "задача", можно "задание"). Термины должны быть адекватные, а то выносит мозг. Так же, поправил несколько не совсем русских формулировок.

I suggest to replace translation for term 'Ticket', current translation confuses much and really uncommon! Generally Russian developers prefer use English terms, but there are less or more generic translations. There is for example CoMindWork.com project made by Russians in Russan language (as far as English), we can use terms like there.

Поддержу перевод ticket как заявка. Этот термин используется в переводах issue ticket системах(например otrs.org).Примеры:список заявок, заявка закрыта, заявка #, тип заявки … Пишу здесь, так как на wiki не дает менять страницу(пишет spam)

comment:50 in reply to:  49 ; Changed 9 years ago by alexey.rudy@…

Replying to anonymous:

Поддержу перевод ticket как заявка. Этот термин используется в переводах issue ticket системах(например otrs.org).Примеры:список заявок, заявка закрыта, заявка #, тип заявки … Пишу здесь, так как на wiki не дает менять страницу(пишет spam)

Ticket is a closer to issue, task, item of to-do. You suggest very narrow meaning request, that seems not right to me.

Мне кажется, значение запрос - очень узкое. Например, если использовать trac как личный todo - это странно. Если использовать как внутри-командный проектный инструмент - тоже.

comment:51 Changed 9 years ago by Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven

Guys, can I apply that patch or does it need revising?

comment:52 in reply to:  50 ; Changed 9 years ago by anonymous

Replying to alexey.rudy@…:

Replying to anonymous:

Поддержу перевод ticket как заявка. Этот термин используется в переводах issue ticket системах(например otrs.org).Примеры:список заявок, заявка закрыта, заявка #, тип заявки … Пишу здесь, так как на wiki не дает менять страницу(пишет spam)

Ticket is a closer to issue, task, item of to-do. You suggest very narrow meaning request, that seems not right to me.

Мне кажется, значение запрос - очень узкое. Например, если использовать trac как личный todo - это странно. Если использовать как внутри-командный проектный инструмент - тоже.

Я бы предложил перевести ticket как запись. Наиболее общий вариант ИМХО. Запись может быть разного типа: задача, запрос (на изменение), дефект, предложение…. kvs(underscore)lab(dog)mail(dot)ru

comment:53 in reply to:  52 ; Changed 9 years ago by anonymous

Replying to anonymous:

Replying to alexey.rudy@…:

Replying to anonymous:

Поддержу перевод ticket как заявка. Этот термин используется в переводах issue ticket системах(например otrs.org).Примеры:список заявок, заявка закрыта, заявка #, тип заявки … Пишу здесь, так как на wiki не дает менять страницу(пишет spam)

Ticket is a closer to issue, task, item of to-do. You suggest very narrow meaning request, that seems not right to me.

Мне кажется, значение запрос - очень узкое. Например, если использовать trac как личный todo - это странно. Если использовать как внутри-командный проектный инструмент - тоже.

Я бы предложил перевести ticket как запись. Наиболее общий вариант ИМХО. Запись может быть разного типа: задача, запрос (на изменение), дефект, предложение…. kvs(underscore)lab(dog)mail(dot)ru

А что если переводить ticket как проблема? Тогда она будет отличаться от задачи. И по смыслу, кажется, вполне соответствует всем возможным вариантам.

comment:54 in reply to:  53 ; Changed 9 years ago by sergerus@…

тикет = заявка

Replying to anonymous:

Replying to anonymous:

Replying to alexey.rudy@…:

Replying to anonymous:

Поддержу перевод ticket как заявка. Этот термин используется в переводах issue ticket системах(например otrs.org).Примеры:список заявок, заявка закрыта, заявка #, тип заявки … Пишу здесь, так как на wiki не дает менять страницу(пишет spam)

Ticket is a closer to issue, task, item of to-do. You suggest very narrow meaning request, that seems not right to me.

Мне кажется, значение запрос - очень узкое. Например, если использовать trac как личный todo - это странно. Если использовать как внутри-командный проектный инструмент - тоже.

Я бы предложил перевести ticket как запись. Наиболее общий вариант ИМХО. Запись может быть разного типа: задача, запрос (на изменение), дефект, предложение…. kvs(underscore)lab(dog)mail(dot)ru

А что если переводить ticket как проблема? Тогда она будет отличаться от задачи. И по смыслу, кажется, вполне соответствует всем возможным вариантам.

comment:55 in reply to:  54 ; Changed 9 years ago by anonymous

Replying to sergerus@…:

тикет = заявка

Replying to anonymous:

Replying to anonymous:

Replying to alexey.rudy@…:

Replying to anonymous:

Поддержу перевод ticket как заявка. Этот термин используется в переводах issue ticket системах(например otrs.org).Примеры:список заявок, заявка закрыта, заявка #, тип заявки … Пишу здесь, так как на wiki не дает менять страницу(пишет spam)

Ticket is a closer to issue, task, item of to-do. You suggest very narrow meaning request, that seems not right to me.

Мне кажется, значение запрос - очень узкое. Например, если использовать trac как личный todo - это странно. Если использовать как внутри-командный проектный инструмент - тоже.

Я бы предложил перевести ticket как запись. Наиболее общий вариант ИМХО. Запись может быть разного типа: задача, запрос (на изменение), дефект, предложение…. kvs(underscore)lab(dog)mail(dot)ru

А что если переводить ticket как проблема? Тогда она будет отличаться от задачи. И по смыслу, кажется, вполне соответствует всем возможным вариантам.

А если трак используется для ведения рабочего журнала? У меня там хранятся не только записи о проблемах, но и планы и просто заметки для себя (комментируемые в процессе работы). ticket в данном случае имеет очень широкое значение, не обязательно проблема. kvs_lab…

comment:56 in reply to:  55 ; Changed 9 years ago by garrikoff@…

Replying to anonymous:

Replying to sergerus@…:

тикет = заявка

Replying to anonymous:

Replying to anonymous:

Replying to alexey.rudy@…:

Replying to anonymous:

Поддержу перевод ticket как заявка. Этот термин используется в переводах issue ticket системах(например otrs.org).Примеры:список заявок, заявка закрыта, заявка #, тип заявки … Пишу здесь, так как на wiki не дает менять страницу(пишет spam)

Ticket is a closer to issue, task, item of to-do. You suggest very narrow meaning request, that seems not right to me.

Мне кажется, значение запрос - очень узкое. Например, если использовать trac как личный todo - это странно. Если использовать как внутри-командный проектный инструмент - тоже.

Я бы предложил перевести ticket как запись. Наиболее общий вариант ИМХО. Запись может быть разного типа: задача, запрос (на изменение), дефект, предложение…. kvs(underscore)lab(dog)mail(dot)ru

А что если переводить ticket как проблема? Тогда она будет отличаться от задачи. И по смыслу, кажется, вполне соответствует всем возможным вариантам.

А если трак используется для ведения рабочего журнала? У меня там хранятся не только записи о проблемах, но и планы и просто заметки для себя (комментируемые в процессе работы). ticket в данном случае имеет очень широкое значение, не обязательно проблема. kvs_lab…

Думаю, не надо переводить Tiket вообще, а назвать его "Тикет". Мы же привыкли к слову "компьютер", так и здесь, можно в хелпе просто написать все возможные значения.

comment:57 Changed 9 years ago by an.alexander.mail@…

Перевод некоторых разделов документации Trac ведется также на translated[dot]by. Буду рад если кто-то решить помочь.

comment:58 Changed 9 years ago by Alexey Kinyov <alexey.rudy@…>

Summary suggestion and argumentation for most appropriate translations.

Я считаю, что нужно остановиться на таком варианте переводов:

ticket задача
task задание
defect ошибка
enhancement улучшение

Мои доводы:

  1. При переводе нужно учитывать следующее:
    • термины должны быть максимально русскими. А если в команде привыкли общаться английскими терминами - то можно спокойно пользоваться английским Trac'ом и все будет в порядке
    • нужно учитывать все основные варианты использования: система используется для постановки задач внутри команды, система используется для приема "багов" от пользователей, формальная команда - с руководителями и подчиненными, неформальная команда друзей
  1. Все предложенные термины - русские и однозначно понятны русскому человеку, даже не программисту. Но при этом для программиста тоже звучат нормально.
  1. Предложенные термины - достаточно общие и при этом понятные. "Задача" - может адекватно применяться почти во всех случях. Не обязательно говорить слово "задача" при устном неформальном общении - главное, что в голове по смыслу все стыкуется. Говорить можно и "тикет", и "таск", и "задача" - это все понятные программистам синонимы, независимо от того, какие термины в системе. Другие варианты: "проблема", "запрос", "заявка" - более узкие.
  1. Для решения "конфликта" со словом task - предлагаю перевод task как "задание". Что отражает смысл и звучит по-русски.
  1. Примеры - тест на адекватность использования слова 'задача':
    • я руководитель - я могу ставить задачи свом подчиненным - ОК
    • я программист - я добавляю задачи по проекту в трекер, я смотрю, какие есть задачи по проекту - ОК
    • я пользователь и нашел баг - это единственный не очень удобный случай, но тоже сносно - я как бы ставлю задачу команде проекта посмотреть, что там сломалось - не совсем ОК, но пойдет

Важно! Для качественного перевода прошу все предложения по переводу проверять с помощью подобного теста на адекватность - представить все варианты использования, а не только тот, с которым конкретно вы привыкли иметь дело. Думать о других тоже, в общем :)

Так же - прилагаю патч с исправлениями в переводе, следующим комментарием.

Changed 9 years ago by Alexey Kinyov <alexey.rudy@…>

Attachment: patch_from_r8159.diff added

More fixes, ready for use, just some strings not translated

comment:59 Changed 9 years ago by Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven

Commited in r8160. Spasibo.

comment:60 Changed 9 years ago by davaeron <davaeron@…>

Cc: davaeron@… added

comment:61 Changed 9 years ago by Victor Safronovich

Cc: vsafronovich@… added

comment:62 Changed 8 years ago by 4tomson@…

Priority: normalhighest
Type: taskenhancement

Почему не перевести слово Ticket как "Заявка"? По сути это же заявка и есть.

comment:63 in reply to:  62 Changed 8 years ago by anonymous

Priority: highestnormal
Type: enhancementtask

Replying to 4tomson@…:

Hold on, quick russian guy :) Russian localization has same priority as any other language

Changed 8 years ago by capiv@…

Attachment: ru_RU.po added

Вот что у меня получилось для вчерашнего транка

comment:64 in reply to:  56 Changed 8 years ago by capiv@…

Cc: capiv@… added

тикет = заявка

Думаю, не надо переводить Tiket вообще, а назвать его "Тикет". Мы же привыкли к слову "компьютер", так и здесь, можно в хелпе просто написать все возможные значения.

С таким-же успехом вы можете перевести дословно - как "билет" и уже к русскому слову привязывать смысл а не делать очередное заимствование.

Hmm, I propose to translate the word "Ticket" and give attention to another gaps in russian L10N. For example in ticket view only "Reported by" and "Owned by" got translated with ru_RU.po, same true for query filters and many other points.

comment:65 Changed 8 years ago by Alexander Sigachov <alexander.sigachov@…>

Я бы предложил вариант перевода "карточка" для "tiket", подразумевая, что каждая заявка оформляется в виде карточки. Это достаточно точный перевод, такой вариант (среди других) предлагает Лингво, а в некоторых регионах России проездной билет называют именно "карточкой".

У слова "заявка", всё-таки, несколько другой смысл, чем у оригинального "tiket".

Мне этот перевод близок, так как именно такая терминология сложилась в компании, где я работаю. Соответственно, у карточки есть ответственный (Owner), составитель (Reporter).

comment:66 Changed 8 years ago by kossmak <kossmak@…>

Еще раз предлагается перенести обсуждение спорных вопросов (в том числе переводов терминов) в http://code.google.com/p/ru-trac-translation/issues/list Неприятно видеть холивар в столь важной ветке.

comment:67 in reply to:  65 Changed 8 years ago by elnur.home@…

Cc: elnur.home@… added

Replying to Alexander Sigachov <alexander.sigachov@…>:

Я бы предложил вариант перевода "карточка" для "tiket"

Согласен. «Ticket» — «Карточка».

comment:68 Changed 8 years ago by Christian Boos

Owner: changed from anonymous to Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven
Status: assignednew

comment:69 Changed 8 years ago by davaeron@…

Cc: davaeron@… removed

comment:70 Changed 8 years ago by Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven

Owner: Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven deleted

comment:71 Changed 8 years ago by Christian Boos

So what was the consensus about ru_RU.po, should that one be committed?

The Russian team should also voice their opinion here or on Trac-dev about what they think is best for handling the translations in the future: use a dedicated tool like Transifex, have one of you be a committer for the locale/ru_RU area, etc.

Btw, would it be OK for you that I rename ru_RU to simply ru, we're trying to use only ISO 639-1 codes where possible (e.g. r9090).

comment:72 Changed 8 years ago by Christian Boos

Milestone: 0.12translations

comment:73 in reply to:  71 ; Changed 8 years ago by elnur.home@…

Replying to cboos:

So what was the consensus about ru_RU.po, should that one be committed?

Seems like everyone gave up on this translation, right? I don't like the current status of it, so I would like to contribute. I always hated Russian translations (here is my post about it) and then just switched to software, movies and books in English; this time I can really change the situation. Just tell me where to start from.

Replying to cboos:

Btw, would it be OK for you that I rename ru_RU to simply ru, we're trying to use only ISO 639-1 codes where possible (e.g. r9090).

I think it's perfectly OK. Why wouldn't it be?

comment:74 in reply to:  73 ; Changed 8 years ago by Christian Boos

Replying to elnur.home@…:

Replying to cboos:

So what was the consensus about ru_RU.po, should that one be committed?

Seems like everyone gave up on this translation, right?

I wouldn't say this, even if I can't understand the comments above. I know that there's a long record track of interest concerning native Russian support for Trac (witness all the TranslationRu pages) and I'm sure it'll be one of the well supported language in the long run.

It's more that i18n support has been somewhat neglected and, in general, 0.12 slow to mature, so maybe now that we're getting nearer the release, it's perhaps time to revive the translation effort ;-)

I don't like the current status of it, so I would like to contribute. I always hated Russian translations (here is my post about it) and then just switched to software, movies and books in English; this time I can really change the situation. Just tell me where to start from.

wiki:TracL10N as usual ;-)

Then once you progress with your translation, I can only stress the importance of testing the overall feel of the translated application when actually running it. Words or sentences that look correctly translated when taken in isolation may actually not fit well together when seen in the context of the final page as seen in the browser. It's also a good idea to show that result to your teammates and get some kind of consensus about the terminology.

When you're at that point, it's time to contribute back the new catalog ;-)

Replying to cboos:

Btw, would it be OK for you that I rename ru_RU to simply ru, we're trying to use only ISO 639-1 codes where possible (e.g. r9090).

I think it's perfectly OK. Why wouldn't it be?

No idea ;-) But I preferred to ask first. Done so in r9099.

Changed 8 years ago by capiv@…

Attachment: ru.po added

updated from today's trunk

comment:75 in reply to:  74 Changed 8 years ago by elnur

Replying to cboos:

Thanks for the info. I'll start on these weekends.

comment:76 Changed 8 years ago by elnur <elnur.home@…>

So, I started translating today and have managed to translate some terms.

But I have found a problem: the heading Version Control in the left menu in the Admin section is not translatable (I can't find it in my newly generated message.po file using Trac from trunk).

comment:77 Changed 8 years ago by elnur <elnur.home@…>

The checkbox option Tickets in the Search section is not translatable, too.

comment:78 Changed 8 years ago by elnur <elnur.home@…>

The New Report heading on the Create New Report page is not translatable.

comment:79 Changed 8 years ago by Remy Blank

Thanks! I added the markers in [9160]. I'll let Christian do the extraction though.

Don't hesitate to report any other missing markers as you find them.

comment:80 in reply to:  79 ; Changed 8 years ago by elnur <elnur.home@…>

Replying to rblank:

Thanks.

One more problem:

msgid "Report %(num)s has no SQL query."
msgid "Report %(num)s does not exist."

are not consistent with

msgid "The report {%(id)d} has been deleted."
msgid "Edit Report {%(num)d} %(title)s"

in using and not using curly brackets.

comment:81 Changed 8 years ago by elnur <elnur.home@…>

Is there a way of translating default milestones, components, priorities, resolutions and ticket types like "component1", "milestone1", "blocker", "critical", etc?

As far as I understand, they are populated to a database during a project creation, but a language can be changed only after that. Is there a way of choosing the default language during a project creation?

comment:82 Changed 8 years ago by elnur <elnur.home@…>

Here is a problem in the Admin section regarding headings of some subsections:

  • Manage Priorities
  • Manage Resolutions
  • Manage Severities
  • Manage Ticket Types

Seems like these headings are being built by concatenating the word Manage with Priorities, Resolutions, etc; while the headings of all the other subsections are complete phrases like Manage Versions. The way these four headings listed above are being built is causing problems with the translation. They should be complete phrases.

comment:83 in reply to:  81 Changed 8 years ago by elnur <elnur.home@…>

Replying to elnur <elnur.home@…>:

Is there a way of translating default milestones, components, priorities, resolutions and ticket types like "component1", "milestone1", "blocker", "critical", etc?

And available reports.

comment:84 in reply to:  79 ; Changed 8 years ago by Christian Boos

Replying to rblank:

… I'll let Christian do the extraction though.

Yes, though I try to do this only seldom, as this creates a very long and boring changeset ;-) Instead of waiting for the next extraction, translators can (and are encouraged to) do that themselves, as explained in TracL10N, step 1.

Installing the appropriate version of Babel and Genshi is anyway are requirement for testing the translations in context, also something we want to encourage.

comment:85 in reply to:  81 Changed 8 years ago by Christian Boos

Replying to elnur <elnur.home@…>:

Is there a way of translating default milestones, components, priorities, resolutions and ticket types like "component1", "milestone1", "blocker", "critical", etc?

Not yet.

As far as I understand, they are populated to a database during a project creation, but a language can be changed only after that. Is there a way of choosing the default language during a project creation?

I'd like to address the problem differently. Remember that the choice of language is done by the user, so we don't want to unnecessarily "hardcode" strings in a given language on the server side. So the enumeration values should rather be used as a key (a kind of msgid if you want), and the proper translation should be fetched according to the user selected language.

Now the specificity here is that we don't have a fixed list of such values, only initial defaults. Each Trac instance will likely have its own set of values for these enums (well, components and milestones are rather "resources" on their own right, so let's leave them out of the picture for now).

We therefore should have a flexible way to add translations for those new values. Adding a specific .pot and requiring the admin to create, update and compile the corresponding catalogs would be to heavy weight. To that, I prefer taking the values from TracIni sections, e.g. [enums:fr] priority.high = haute, [enums.ru] ... etc. The initial default values could be translated, of course. All of this is left to be implemented, though.

Changed 8 years ago by elnur <elnur.home@…>

Attachment: patch_from_r9161.diff added

This is the result of my today's work.

comment:86 in reply to:  84 ; Changed 8 years ago by elnur <elnur.home@…>

Replying to cboos:

Replying to rblank:

… I'll let Christian do the extraction though.

Yes, though I try to do this only seldom, as this creates a very long and boring changeset ;-) Instead of waiting for the next extraction, translators can (and are encouraged to) do that themselves, as explained in TracL10N, step 1.

Okey, I did it myself.

Since my submitted patch is not applied yet, I'll submit a new one in the next comment.

Changed 8 years ago by elnur <elnur.home@…>

Attachment: patch_from_r9161_new.diff added

A revised patch of my today's work. Commit early, commit often, right? :)

comment:87 in reply to:  86 Changed 8 years ago by Christian Boos

Replying to elnur <elnur.home@…>:

Replying to cboos: … as explained in TracL10N, step 1.

Okey, I did it myself.

Perfect!

However, looking at patch_from_r9161_new.diff, I see several fuzzy annotations for the translations you just added. While it's OK to leave fuzzy for the ones you haven't modified (which means they are somehow not yet validated and still need review), it seems odd to keep them for newly added translations.

Besides, when executing step 4.2. (compile_catalog), I see the following errors:

$ PYTHONPATH=. python setup.py compile_catalog -l ru -f
running compile_catalog
5051 error: trac/locale\ru\LC_MESSAGES\messages.po:1097: unknown named placeholder u'error'
error: trac/locale\ru\LC_MESSAGES\messages.po:2312: unknown named placeholder u'num'
error: trac/locale\ru\LC_MESSAGES\messages.po:2391: unknown named placeholder u'message'
error: trac/locale\ru\LC_MESSAGES\messages.po:2740: unknown named placeholder u'summary'
error: trac/locale\ru\LC_MESSAGES\messages.po:3330: unknown named placeholder u'id'
error: trac/locale\ru\LC_MESSAGES\messages.po:3623: unknown named placeholder u'path'
error: trac/locale\ru\LC_MESSAGES\messages.po:3719: unknown named placeholder u'name'
error: trac/locale\ru\LC_MESSAGES\messages.po:3781: unknown named placeholder u'path'
error: trac/locale\ru\LC_MESSAGES\messages.po:4426: unknown named placeholder u'path'
error: trac/locale\ru\LC_MESSAGES\messages.po:4505: unknown named placeholder u'rev'
error: trac/locale\ru\LC_MESSAGES\messages.po:4526: unknown named placeholder u'name'
error: trac/locale\ru\LC_MESSAGES\messages.po:4765: unknown named placeholder u'parent'

I'll let you fix what you can from the above errors and apply the next patch ;-)

comment:88 in reply to:  80 ; Changed 8 years ago by Remy Blank

Replying to elnur <elnur.home@…>:

One more problem:

Fixed in [9162].

comment:89 Changed 8 years ago by elnur <elnur.home@…>

Replying to cboos:

However, looking at patch_from_r9161_new.diff, I see several fuzzy annotations for the translations you just added. While it's OK to leave fuzzy for the ones you haven't modified (which means they are somehow not yet validated and still need review), it seems odd to keep them for newly added translations.

I add fuzzy "tag" to existing wrong translations or to my new ones when I'm not quite sure about them, so that I and others can find them quicker. More, I denote by that "tag" that translations are not final and are open to discussions and changes.

When I'm sure about translations I don't add or remove existing fuzzy "tags". Of course, I will get rid of them closer to the final version. ;)

Is this OK for you or do you insist on not doing like that?

Besides, when executing step 4.2. (compile_catalog), I see the following errors:

...

I'll let you fix what you can from the above errors and apply the next patch ;-)

I'll try to fix them tomorrow. :)

comment:90 in reply to:  88 Changed 8 years ago by elnur <elnur.home@…>

Replying to rblank:

Fixed in [9162].

Nice. Thanks. :)

comment:91 in reply to:  89 ; Changed 8 years ago by Christian Boos

Replying to elnur <elnur.home@…>:

I add fuzzy "tag" to existing wrong translations or to my new ones when I'm not quite sure about them,

Ah! That's a correct way to use them. Knowing you added them or kept them on purpose, that's perfectly fine for me.

More, I denote by that "tag" that translations are not final and are open to discussions and changes.

That's a bit overcautious though, I think you can remove the "fuzzy" tag when you are satisfied with the translation. "fuzzy" or not, that won't prevent someone else to propose a better translation if she sees fit ;-)

If discussions for finding a consensus about terms or sentences have to happen, they can take place here or on the TracTermsXY pages.

comment:92 in reply to:  91 ; Changed 8 years ago by elnur <elnur.home@…>

Replying to cboos:

If discussions for finding a consensus about terms or sentences have to happen, they can take place here or on the TracTermsXY pages.

I've read all those discussions and most of the them were about translating the term ticket. I think it's better to ask you — the core developers — what this term really means.

Here are three candidates who made it to the final battle and will fight to death:

  1. The most of people involved in those discussions chose to translate this term like a task. A conflict arises when a ticket is a task and there is a ticket type called task. They kind of solved this conflict by using a synonym of the translation of the word task which sounds very similar but is a kind of different word. These two words are задача and задание. I think that this solutions is confusing, because these two words sound very similar and indeed are very similar in their meanings. By the way, I don't think that every ticket should be a task, because it can be just a wrong bug report, which may be discarded as invalid or wontfix.

  2. For me — and some of others involved in those discussions — a ticket is like a card. It's like a sheet of paper with some fields for you to fill and put this sheet to a designated place, so that others process them later.

  3. There was a third option: to just transliterate it to Russian and leave it like that. The result would be the word тикет. The reasoning behind this option is that there is no translation of the word ticket which sounds right. They said that Russian people got used to transliterated terms like computer and Internet and there would be no problem to get used to this one.

Before I started translating, the 1st option was used. Since it's confusing I started changing the translation to the 2st option. While I believe that the 2nd option is the most correct translation of the term, I think that the 3rd option has its rights to live because it's shorter, more modern, easier to pronounce and sounds better — I can't decide between them both.

So, what do you think?

comment:93 in reply to:  88 ; Changed 8 years ago by elnur <elnur.home@…>

Replying to rblank:

Fixed in [9162].

One % sign was lost in the process. I'm supplying a patch in the next comment. :)

Changed 8 years ago by elnur <elnur.home@…>

Adds a missing % sign.

comment:94 Changed 8 years ago by elnur <elnur.home@…>

Seems like words Tabular and Unified in diff view are not translatable.

comment:95 in reply to:  82 ; Changed 8 years ago by elnur <elnur.home@…>

Replying to elnur <elnur.home@…>:

Here is a problem in the Admin section regarding headings of some subsections…

The same problem applies to the headings of add-forms in these subsections.

comment:96 in reply to:  93 Changed 8 years ago by Remy Blank

Replying to elnur <elnur.home@…>:

One % sign was lost in the process. I'm supplying a patch in the next comment. :)

Oops, yes, my bad. Fixed in [9163].

comment:97 in reply to:  95 Changed 8 years ago by elnur <elnur.home@…>

Replying to elnur <elnur.home@…>:

Replying to elnur <elnur.home@…>:

Here is a problem in the Admin section regarding headings of some subsections…

The same problem applies to the headings of add-forms in these subsections.

The same applies to notices shown after adding or removing an enum element.

This time I've browsed the code and found that all of these problems relate to the workings with enums. I understand the reasoning behind making a generic solution for working with things like this, but the current implementation handicaps neat translation.

I tried to edit some parts of the code but stopped after hitting my limitations since I have zero experience with Python.

I want to know, will you be bothering with this problem or you got something more important for now? If you are too busy, I could try to make one more try to solve this problem myself and send you a patch.

comment:98 Changed 8 years ago by elnur <elnur.home@…>

There is no exact translation of the term timeline in Russian. Would it be OK if I use the translation of the word chronology?

Changed 8 years ago by elnur <elnur.home@…>

Attachment: patch-main.py-r9163.diff added

Made a string translatable.

Changed 8 years ago by elnur <elnur.home@…>

comment:99 in reply to:  92 ; Changed 8 years ago by Christian Boos

Replying to elnur <elnur.home@…>:

Replying to cboos:

If discussions for finding a consensus about terms or sentences have to happen, they can take place here or on the TracTermsXY pages.

I've read all those discussions and most of the them were about translating the term ticket. I think it's better to ask you — the core developers — what this term really means.

Here are three candidates who made it to the final battle and will fight to death:

  1. The most of people involved in those discussions chose to translate this term like a task. […]
  2. For me — and some of others involved in those discussions — a ticket is like a card. […]
  3. There was a third option: to just transliterate it to Russian and leave it like that. […]

Before I started translating, the 1st option was used. Since it's confusing I started changing the translation to the 2st option. While I believe that the 2nd option is the most correct translation of the term, I think that the 3rd option has its rights to live because it's shorter, more modern, easier to pronounce and sounds better — I can't decide between them both.

To help you decide, you can have a look at what the other translators for other languages did, or alternatively what was the choice made by russian translators for other similar software (e.g. RedMine, or Subversion for version control related terminology).

Personally, I was OK with the choice of keeping "Ticket", made by previous french translators (i.e. your option 3.).

Similar thing for "Timeline", there's no literal translation so we picked something close. First it was "Historique", but that was identical to the translation for "History" link in Wiki pages, then we adopted the term used by RedMine ("Activité", which means Activity). The German translation also has similar issues with picking the right term for Timeline (#8933)…

Changed 8 years ago by 4glitch@…

Attachment: messages_9164.diff added

I glad to see you merged multirepos into trunk, i corrected my variant

comment:100 in reply to:  99 Changed 8 years ago by elnur <elnur.home@…>

Replying to cboos:

To help you decide, you can have a look at what the other translators for other languages did, or alternatively what was the choice made by russian translators for other similar software (e.g. RedMine, or Subversion for version control related terminology).

Personally, I was OK with the choice of keeping "Ticket", made by previous french translators (i.e. your option 3.).

I just checked it and saw that they use the term "Ticket", too. :) After some yesterday's meditation on the translation and seeing that French guys came to a similar consensus, I'm coming to the conclusion that it's the best option. So, I'll apply this new perspective the next time I'll get busy with the translation (I decided to work on it during weekends, but might do some occasional changes during workdays).

Similar thing for "Timeline", there's no literal translation so we picked something close. First it was "Historique", but that was identical to the translation for "History" link in Wiki pages, then we adopted the term used by RedMine ("Activité", which means Activity). The German translation also has similar issues with picking the right term for Timeline (#8933)…

Yea, seems like RedMine's guys switched to the term "Activity". :)

I decided to change the translation of the term "Timeline" because before I started translating it was translated like "Activity Journal", which, I think, is not close enough to the meaning of the word "Timeline".

We might use the term "Activity", like RedMine does, but I think it's a bit oversimplification. The problem is that you — the core developers — would change the term "Timeline" to "Activity" if it'd be what you wanted it to be.

Now, a little offtopic:

When I translate, I translate authors' meanings; I don't fix them because I want to show the world that I'm smarter that author. When I see other translators changing author's meanings, they don't look smarter; they look rather stupid because of not being able to catch the author's meaning and translate it as close to the original as possible. So, when on one button you write "Apply changes" and on another one you write "Save changes", I'll translate them differently, not trying to fix your "mistakes" by translating them as one.

Now, back to the topic. The closest by the meaning word I could find is "Chronology". Here is the first paragraph from the Chronology page of Wikipedia:

Chronology is a chronicle or arrangement of events in their order of occurrence in time, such as a timeline. It is also "the determination of the actual temporal sequence of past events".

So, I guess I'll stick with it.

By the way, I've fixed those nasty errors that were showing up during compile_catalog, and made changes to the translation. This is not the final version, but commit often, commit early. :) The patch is available: patch-translation-r9163.diff.

And I've added a new translatable string in patch-main.py-r9163.diff. If it's done right, please apply this patch, too.

comment:101 Changed 8 years ago by Christian Boos

Current status in the repository (source:trunk/trac/locale/ru/LC_MESSAGES/messages.po@9099): 432 translated messages, 161 fuzzy translations, 117 untranslated messages.

Now we have two "concurrent" contributions:

  • patch-translation-r9163.diff from elnur.home@…: 405 translated messages, 278 fuzzy translations, 292 untranslated messages. (knowing that some fuzzy translations are "to be reviewed" ones)
  • messages_9164.diff from 4glitch@…: 810 translated messages, 72 fuzzy translations, 90 untranslated messages.

I would have picked elnur's one as he was the first, but 4glitch's appears to be much more complete, so there's no obvious choice to make here. You should coordinate together and tell me what to do (or better, merge both contributions into one…)

Changed 8 years ago by elnur <elnur.home@…>

comment:102 Changed 8 years ago by elnur <elnur.home@…>

Yes, 4glitch's translation is much more complete and has its own nice parts, which I definitely like. It just ignores almost everything discussed here and there, popping out of nowhere with, for example, a very strange and unexpected translation of the term "Ticket".

A little of bit of communication would be helpful. Hello, 4glitch. ;)

This is the result of my today's work: patch-translation-r9164.diff. Added 100+ translations.

comment:103 in reply to:  101 ; Changed 8 years ago by 4glitch@…

Replying to cboos:

Current status in the repository (source:trunk/trac/locale/ru/LC_MESSAGES/messages.po@9099): 432 translated messages, 161 fuzzy translations, 117 untranslated messages.

Now we have two "concurrent" contributions:

  • patch-translation-r9163.diff from elnur.home@…: 405 translated messages, 278 fuzzy translations, 292 untranslated messages. (knowing that some fuzzy translations are "to be reviewed" ones)
  • messages_9164.diff from 4glitch@…: 810 translated messages, 72 fuzzy translations, 90 untranslated messages.

I would have picked elnur's one as he was the first, but 4glitch's appears to be much more complete, so there's no obvious choice to make here. You should coordinate together and tell me what to do (or better, merge both contributions into one…)

I can't understand why you think patch-translation-r9163.diff was first? Both ru_RU.po and ru.po was mine and i do update after every checkout from trunk. What sens to make diff, which larger then .po?

As for patch-translation-r9163.diff, excuse me, but i don't see the translation work in it —- a few verbs changed with nouns and string numbers updated. Current translation in tree is inconsistent (i.e. same terms have several translations) and unfortunately few people interested in testing the new translation.

comment:104 in reply to:  103 ; Changed 8 years ago by Christian Boos

Replying to 4glitch@…:

Replying to cboos:

I can't understand why you think patch-translation-r9163.diff was first? Both ru_RU.po and ru.po was mine and i do update after every checkout from trunk.

Well, the link between "capiv@…" and "4glitch@…" wasn't immediately obvious, I should have looked to the Last-Translator info…

But then, speaking of ru_RU.po, the comment:64 that followed seemed to trigger some discussion. As it was held in Russian, I couldn't guess if that was a controversy or an agreement or even related at all. That's why I asked for clarifications in comment:71, but I didn't get an answer, except from elnur who said he was not satisfied by the current status.

What sens to make diff, which larger then .po?

No problem, provide either the messages.po or the diff, as you prefer. The diff makes it a bit easier for other translator to detect what was changed.

As for patch-translation-r9163.diff, …

Well, let's consider things in a positive way: after some months of inactivity, we now have two nearly complete Russian translations, and elnur made it clear that he liked parts of your translations. So please come to some kind of agreement (complete agreement is of course impossible to reach on such matters) and then inform us when a consensual version is ready (the opinion of other Russian reviewers may help here).

comment:105 Changed 8 years ago by elnur <elnur.home@…>

Replying to 4glitch@…:

Nice, 4glitch, at least we can communicate. Let's discuss the translation and come up with a consensus. We are here not to fight each other, but to make the best possible translation of this beautiful project called Trac to Russian. Is this your goal too? If it is, let's go.

First of all, I like some parts of your translation. I would borrow some of your ideas from it. Even if I don't like other parts of it, overall it's OK. It just needs several corrections.

The question that bothers me most is, why have you chosen to translate the term "Ticket" as "Билет"? What was your reasoning? Your translation of it came to me as on of the most unexpected. I understand that it's the most literal translation, but do you think that this translation is right for the meaning of the term "Ticket" in Trac? Do you feel it's right?

So, let's start from resolving this question first and then move this discussion further.

comment:106 in reply to:  102 ; Changed 8 years ago by anonymous

Replying to elnur <elnur.home@…>:

popping out of nowhere with, for example, a very strange and unexpected translation of the term "Ticket".

Look at PO-Revision-Date im messages.po from trunk and you probably could understand why it was "popped out of nowhere"

strange? type http://translate.google.com/translate_t?q=ticket&oe=utf-8#auto|ru|ticket it's natural, no need for invention imho

A little of bit of communication would be helpful. Hello, 4glitch. ;)

I didn't leave this ticket, but it seems a bit overloaded. OK, try on this page, and give a comments if possible, please

This is the result of my today's work: patch-translation-r9164.diff. Added 100+ translations.

comment:107 in reply to:  106 Changed 8 years ago by 4glitch@…

Replying to anonymous: I'm sorry,

This is the result of my today's work: patch-translation-r9164.diff. Added 100+ translations.

I will apply this to my trac sandbox soon and play

comment:108 in reply to:  104 Changed 8 years ago by 4glitch@…

Replying to cboos:

Well, the link between "capiv@…" and "4glitch@…" wasn't immediately obvious,

if this trac installation had a thing such as OpenID login, maybe it would be much easier to decide which label to use in comments

That's why I asked for clarifications in comment:71, but I didn't get an answer, except from elnur who said he was not satisfied by the current status.

there is a two translators and no users :)

comment:109 in reply to:  106 ; Changed 8 years ago by elnur <elnur.home@…>

Replying to anonymous:

strange? type http://translate.google.com/translate_t?q=ticket&oe=utf-8#auto|ru|ticket it's natural

Yes, strange. Would you translate "calculator" as "счётная машина", "вычислительная машина", "счётчик", "вычислитель" or "считальщик"? Would it be more natural than just "калькулятор"? Would you translate "Internet" as "Междусеть"? Would it be more natural than just "Интернет"?

My point is, there are some terms that can't be translated to Russian (and other languages) fully because those translations won't give you the full meaning of the original term. They can't be translated literally and "naturally" because the result doesn't feel natural at all. That's why "computer" is translated as "компьютер", not as "вычислитель". That's why "bug" is translated as "баг", not as "жук" or "букашка".

no need for invention imho

Indeed. That's what I'm talking about. Just translate "Ticket" as "Тикет" and don't make people get used to the wholly unnatural meaning of the word "Билет".

The second problem with your translation is the change of "#" to "№". While I understand that it's the literal translation and that the "№" symbol is used in Russian as a shorthand to the word "number", I don't understand why would you ignore the fact that "№1" won't become a link to a ticket as "#1" would.

I'm starting to see a pattern: you're overtranslating. Are you trying to keep Russian as clean as possible from borrowed terms? Why can't you just transliterate some terms instead of making them fully "Russian"? Do you really think it's natural to translate the terms "commit", "diff" and "patch" to "фиксация", "различие" and "заплатка"?

I didn't leave this ticket, but it seems a bit overloaded. OK, try on this page, and give a comments if possible, please

I prefer to stay here because this is the central place of the communication on the translation to Russian. When we come to some consensus, it should stay here so that others don't pop out of nowhere with strange translations ignoring everything discussed previously.

So, please don't branch out to your own page which seems to have only your opinions and no discussion at all.

comment:110 in reply to:  109 Changed 8 years ago by 4glitch@…

Replying to elnur <elnur.home@…>:

Too fat.

comment:111 Changed 8 years ago by elnur <elnur.home@…>

The parts in italics of the following text are not translatable. Got this error message while setting a date for a milestone.

Error: Invalid Date

"18.02.2010" is an invalid date, or the date format is not known. Try "MM/DD/YYYY" instead.

comment:112 Changed 8 years ago by elnur <elnur.home@…>

"Previous Ticket" and "Next Ticket" links' titles are not translatable.

comment:113 Changed 8 years ago by elnur <elnur.home@…>

When adding already existing enum, it's type is not translatable in the error message.

comment:114 Changed 8 years ago by Christian Boos

Hm, time for a new page ;-) Please add such reports to MissingTranslations.

Now "Previous Ticket" and "Next Ticket" links are translatable, check again (you can verify this when switching e.g. to French).

comment:115 Changed 8 years ago by elnur <elnur.home@…>

Replying to elnur <elnur.home@…>:

When adding already existing enum, it's type is not translatable in the error message.

The same goes for the error message being displayed on an attempt to access nonexistent enum value (/admin/ticket/priority/nonexistent).

comment:116 in reply to:  114 Changed 8 years ago by elnur <elnur.home@…>

Replying to cboos:

Hm, time for a new page ;-) Please add such reports to MissingTranslations.

OK. I'll start after this moment. :)

Now "Previous Ticket" and "Next Ticket" links are translatable, check again (you can verify this when switching e.g. to French).

I meant not just links, but there titles (<a href="…" title="…"). I should have been more concrete. :)

Changed 8 years ago by elnur <elnur.home@…>

The result of today's work. Added 105 translations.

comment:117 Changed 8 years ago by elnur <elnur.home@…>

Christian, where should I put information on inconsistent strings (like comment:80) and/or strings that inhibit neat translations (like comment:82)? They don't quite match for this ticket and MissingTranslations page.

Changed 8 years ago by elnur <elnur.home@…>

The result of today's work. The translation is 72% ready.

comment:118 in reply to:  117 Changed 8 years ago by Christian Boos

Replying to elnur <elnur.home@…>:

Christian, where should I put information on inconsistent strings (like comment:80) and/or strings that inhibit neat translations (like comment:82)? They don't quite match for this ticket and MissingTranslations page.

Just put them there nonetheless, this page should collect all the remaining issues with i18n in form of lists of items we can cross, and "I18NToDo" just doesn't make for a good wiki page name (I have enough pain already with having to write ["TracL10N"] all the time ;-) ).

comment:119 Changed 8 years ago by o.shirochenkov@…

Hi, guys. Firstly I would thank you all for translation of project. I have been installed Trac 0.12dev, most of strings are on my native language. Please, explain me how to apply translations of every translated page's content, I don't want to change all of them manually by coping from TranslationRu with link fixing. Thank you.

comment:120 Changed 8 years ago by Christian Boos

Ok, as the discussion above has somewhat stalled and no other Russian speaking person has taken sides, I've decided to move on and apply the latest contributions from elnur in [9417], even if they were controversed (but I would personally tend to agree with what elnur wrote in comment:106, as far as the discussion can be transposed to french for example).

comment:121 Changed 8 years ago by Christian Boos

Cc: al.prudnikov@… added

167 new translations contributed by Alexandr Prudnikov in [9433]

comment:122 in reply to:  121 ; Changed 8 years ago by elnur <elnur.home@…>

Replying to cboos:

167 new translations contributed by Alexandr Prudnikov in [9433]

Oh my god… Not again this pop-out-of-nowhere…

comment:123 in reply to:  122 ; Changed 8 years ago by Christian Boos

Replying to elnur <elnur.home@…>:

Replying to cboos:

167 new translations contributed by Alexandr Prudnikov in [9433]

Oh my god… Not again this pop-out-of-nowhere…

Why? Pop-out-of-nowhere is not bad by itself. Tell me if the translations are good, can be improved, or if they are really so bad that a revert would be preferable.

From my point of view, it simply looks like the Russian team got some new member interested in helping out and willing to spend a few hours on this. So don't be dismissive, tell him what needs to be improved if necessary (he's on CC:). But more contributors is a good thing, IMO, as this should lead to consensus.

Committing the contribution is only a way to get more visibility to the translation and can perhaps lead to quicker progress, there's nothing set in stone though. If you prefer, I can attach the contributions I receive by e-mail on this ticket for review first. The next step I want to do anyway will be to setup a Mercurial repository for receiving direct contributions via Transifex. From time to time, I would sync the catalogs from hg to svn.

comment:124 in reply to:  123 ; Changed 8 years ago by elnur <elnur.home@…>

Replying to cboos:

Replying to elnur <elnur.home@…>:

Replying to cboos:

167 new translations contributed by Alexandr Prudnikov in [9433]

Oh my god… Not again this pop-out-of-nowhere…

Why? Pop-out-of-nowhere is not bad by itself. Tell me if the translations are good, can be improved, or if they are really so bad that a revert would be preferable.

After my comment on Alexandr's translation, he contacted me by email, willing to come to a consensus. I don't think revert is needed in this case because Alexandr is at least trying to communicate, so I hope that we will reach a consensus in the end.

Meanwhile, the problem with the last committed translation is that the term "ticket" is translated to Russian again, instead of just borrowing it. This problem was covered in comment:100 and comment:109, and I pointed Alexandr to it, so I hope he will make appropriate changes if he agrees with me.

From my point of view, it simply looks like the Russian team got some new member interested in helping out and willing to spend a few hours on this. So don't be dismissive, tell him what needs to be improved if necessary (he's on CC:). But more contributors is a good thing, IMO, as this should lead to consensus.

Yea, I totally agree with you. It's great that we have fresh blood to help us make it closer to completion. Especially when I got so busy that I can barely find some time to finish what I have started.

Committing the contribution is only a way to get more visibility to the translation and can perhaps lead to quicker progress, there's nothing set in stone though.

I'm glad you have finally accepted and committed my efforts. It took a long time. And then you just almost instantly committed a translation, that ignores what was well discussed and what you agreed with me on.

If you prefer, I can attach the contributions I receive by e-mail on this ticket for review first.

That would be really useful, especially when new translators ignore all of the previous discussion and repeat the same mistakes again. That's what I call popping-out-of-nowhere.

I hope I'll find some time to continue with the translation. For now I'm waiting for problems from MissingTranslations to be fixed, anyway.

comment:125 Changed 8 years ago by elnur <elnur.home@…>

Alexandr, please strife to translate buttons' labels as verbs. The reasoning is that buttons correspond to actions, and actions are verbs. For example, "Cancel" is "Отменить", not "Отмена". Translating "Save" as "Сохранить" and then "Cancel" as "Отмена" is inconsistent. I know that almost all translations to Russian translate "Cancel" as "Canceling", but that doesn't mean it's right.

comment:126 in reply to:  124 Changed 8 years ago by Christian Boos

Replying to elnur <elnur.home@…>:

Replying to cboos:

Committing the contribution is only a way to get more visibility to the translation and can perhaps lead to quicker progress, there's nothing set in stone though.

I'm glad you have finally accepted and committed my efforts. It took a long time. And then you just almost instantly committed a translation, that ignores what was well discussed and what you agreed with me on.

Well, it was part of the same spirit to get the ball rolling again. I couldn't really judge the content of the translation… as much as I'd love to be able to understand Russian ;-)

If you prefer, I can attach the contributions I receive by e-mail on this ticket for review first.

That would be really useful, especially when new translators ignore all of the previous discussion and repeat the same mistakes again. That's what I call popping-out-of-nowhere.

Understood, I attach his latest contribution here for review (attachment:ru.messages.po).

I hope I'll find some time to continue with the translation. For now I'm waiting for problems from MissingTranslations to be fixed, anyway.

That will probably be after 0.12rc1 though.

Changed 8 years ago by Christian Boos

Attachment: ru.messages.po added

Contributions from Alexandr Prudnikov on top of r9433

comment:127 Changed 8 years ago by igor@…

>   msgid  "Manage Permissions" 
> - msgstr "Управлять правами" 
> + msgstr "Управление разрешениями" 
The right variant is "Управление правами" 


> Веб сервер
Веб-сервер


> строка соединения с базой
"connection" is not "соединение", it is "подключение".


> Необходим PySqlite 2.0.7 или старше
"старше" means "older" means "lower" that is completely wrong. It should be "больше" or even "Необходим PySqlite >= 2.0.7"


> восточнееГринвича
missing space


> "Гринвическое время." 
"время по Гринвичу."


> "Просмотр недоступен"
"Preview" means "Предпросмотр"


> "НовЫая"


> "Ваша карточка %(ticketref)s создана, но у Вас нет прав для его просмотра."
"его" should be "её" and "Вас" should be "вас"


> #: trac/ticket/templates/milestone_delete.html:29 
> msgid "Retarget associated tickets to milestone" 
> msgstr "Перенаправить привязанные карточки в этап"

> #: trac/ticket/templates/milestone_edit.html:71 
> msgid "Retarget associated open tickets to milestone:"
> msgstr "Перенаправить открытые связанные карточки в этап:"
Inconsistent translation. It should be "связанные" in both places.

Changed 8 years ago by al.prudnikov@…

Attachment: ru.r9433.diff added

New changes on top of r9433

comment:128 Changed 8 years ago by Christian Boos

ru.r9433.diff attached by Alexandr Prudnikov.

  • @Alexandr: as we don't currently have e-mail notifications on attachments, please also drop a quick comment to inform the other translators about your update describing
  • @others: I'll be waiting for an ack this time before committing anything
  • @all: if not already done, please think about integrating changes from Igor in comment:127 (and if already done, that's typically the thing to mention in a comment accompanying the attachment ;-) )

comment:129 in reply to:  128 Changed 8 years ago by al.prudnikov@…

Replying to cboos:

OK. In this diff integrates changes from Igor, fixes some type and spell errors, updates to messages.pot r9456.

comment:130 Changed 8 years ago by pnzhdin@…

Cc: pnzhdin@… added

comment:131 Changed 8 years ago by pnzhdin@…

Index: messages.po
===================================================================
--- messages.po (revision 9482)
+++ messages.po (working copy)
@@ -1724,7 +1724,7 @@
 
 #: trac/templates/diff_options.html:25
 msgid "Show the changes in full context"
-msgstr ""
+msgstr "Показать изменения в контексте всего"
 
 #: trac/templates/diff_options.html:29
 msgid "Ignore:"
@@ -2074,7 +2074,7 @@
 
 #: trac/templates/layout.html:50
 msgid "Download in other formats:"
-msgstr ""
+msgstr "Загрузить в других форматах:"
 
 #: trac/templates/list_of_attachments.html:18
 #, python-format
@@ -3304,7 +3304,7 @@
 
 #: trac/ticket/templates/roadmap.html:21
 msgid "Show completed milestones"
-msgstr ""
+msgstr "Показать завершенные этапы"
 
 #: trac/ticket/templates/roadmap.html:26
 msgid "Hide milestones with no due date"
@@ -3776,7 +3776,7 @@
 
 #: trac/versioncontrol/admin.py:142
 msgid "Done."
-msgstr ""
+msgstr "Готово."
 
 #: trac/versioncontrol/admin.py:164
 msgid "Version Control"
@@ -4846,7 +4846,7 @@
 
 #: trac/web/main.py:227
 msgid "Secure cookies are enabled, you must use https to submit forms."
-msgstr ""
+msgstr "Включены secure cookies, используйте https для передачи данных с форм."
 
 #: trac/web/main.py:230
 msgid "Do you have cookies enabled?"
@@ -5005,7 +5005,7 @@
 #: trac/wiki/model.py:175
 #, python-format
 msgid "Can't rename to existing %(name)s page."
-msgstr ""
+msgstr "Невозможно переименовать, в связи с тем, что страница с именем %(name)s уже существует."
 
 #: trac/wiki/web_ui.py:88 trac/wiki/web_ui.py:726
 msgid "Wiki"

comment:132 Changed 8 years ago by Christian Boos

Any progress? We're about to release a 0.12b1 (most likely tomorrow evening), it would be nice if I get at least an advice about what to do with Alexandr's last contributions (i.e. are they OK to commit or not?)

comment:133 in reply to:  132 Changed 8 years ago by ru_anonymous

Replying to cboos:

Any progress? We're about to release a 0.12b1 (most likely tomorrow evening), it would be nice if I get at least an advice about what to do with Alexandr's last contributions (i.e. are they OK to commit or not?)

They are OK, commit it.

comment:134 in reply to:  132 Changed 8 years ago by elnur <elnur.home@…>

Replying to cboos:

Any progress? We're about to release a 0.12b1 (most likely tomorrow evening), it would be nice if I get at least an advice about what to do with Alexandr's last contributions (i.e. are they OK to commit or not?)

ru.r9433.diff is definitely an improvement.

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