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Opened 7 years ago

Closed 7 years ago

#10137 closed defect (fixed)

wrong German translation of 'Annotate' in source browser

Reported by: fbrettschneider@… Owned by: Felix Schwarz
Priority: normal Milestone: 0.12.3
Component: i18n Version:
Severity: normal Keywords: l10n german
Cc: felix.schwarz@…, daniel@…
Release Notes:
API Changes:

Description

I wondered why I could not find the Trac source browser link for the functionality 'svn annotate' (http://trac.edgewall.org/browser//trunk/ChangeLog?annotate=blame) anymore. Searching for that I switched from German back to English and found out that the link couldn't be found since it was translated into German with "Markieren" which is misleading. "Markieren" is a verb equal to English "to mark"/"to select".

Since it's a quite special SVN term I recommend better do not translate it with clumsy synonyms, but rather keep 'Annotate' like you did with "Coverage".

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Change History (29)

comment:1 Changed 7 years ago by Remy Blank

Milestone: 0.12.3

Do you happen to know how the term is translated in Subversion itself?

comment:2 Changed 7 years ago by fbrettschneider@…

Well, http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/subversion/trunk/subversion/po/de.po comes with translation "Annotierung", but IMO this is also a bit clumsy.

http://dict.leo.org/ende?lp=ende&lang=de&searchLoc=0&cmpType=relaxed&sectHdr=on&spellToler=&search=annotation suggests "Annotation" which sounds good at least in my ears. German is a noun-driven language, that's why I think this is a good and short translation for what we actually mean as functionality "revision and author information in-line".

comment:3 in reply to:  description ; Changed 7 years ago by osimons

Replying to fbrettschneider@…:

Since it's a quite special SVN term I recommend better do not translate it with clumsy synonyms, but rather keep 'Annotate' like you did with "Coverage".

BTW, 'Coverage' annotation is a feature of Bitten that don't yet contain any translations.

Anyway, in the bigger scheme of things the word 'Annotate' is a bit bad as it is used for both the 'svn blame'-type feature, and for describing the concept of annotating the source file with other data (like we do in Bitten for coverage-annotation). However, I can't find a proper word to use instead of the general 'Annotate'. Ideas?

Last edited 7 years ago by osimons (previous) (diff)

comment:4 Changed 7 years ago by Remy Blank

I always liked "blame", as it's pretty clear what the functionality is for, but I understand it's not politically correct. We could use "praise" instead :)

comment:5 in reply to:  3 Changed 7 years ago by Christian Boos

Replying to osimons:

However, I can't find a proper word to use instead of the general 'Annotate'. Ideas?

Well, simply using 'Blame' should be fine. Some other widely used user interfaces like TortoiseSvn use just that.

PS: think about a 0.12 powered Bitten before we release 0.13 ;-)

PS2: just conflicted with Remy… so to follow-up on the politically correct remark, I think if TortoiseSvn does it, it should be fine for us as well. And 'praise' is also connotated ;-)

comment:6 Changed 7 years ago by anonymous

'Blame' would be OK as well, but should not be translated then, either, because it's a very SVN-specific term where a translation would just cause confusion.

Although I rather tend to 'Annotate' in general since that has no negative connotation.

comment:7 in reply to:  6 Changed 7 years ago by fbrettschneider@…

Replying to anonymous:

That was me.

comment:8 in reply to:  3 Changed 7 years ago by fbrettschneider@…

Replying to osimons:

… However, I can't find a proper word to use instead of the general 'Annotate'. Ideas?

How about one of these?:

  • 'Lines annotation'
  • 'Source Lines annotation'
  • 'Lines-based revision information'

comment:9 Changed 7 years ago by anonymous

I suggest "Annotate" as term for English as well as for the German translation with an according link-tooltip explaining the term with "Lines-related revision information" in English and "zeilenbezogene Versionsinformationen" in German, respectively.

comment:10 Changed 7 years ago by Remy Blank

Owner: set to Remy Blank

As mentioned in comment:3, the word "Annotate" is more general in Trac, so we would like to change it. My suggestion of using "praise" was obviously a joke, but it seems the SVN guys were serious about it:

$ svn help blame
blame (praise, annotate, ann): Output the content of specified files or
URLs with revision and author information in-line.
usage: blame TARGET[@REV]...

From the comments above, I understand "blame" would be acceptable. Ok for the change?

comment:11 in reply to:  10 Changed 7 years ago by fbrettschneider@…

Replying to rblank:

From the comments above, I understand "blame" would be acceptable. Ok for the change?

Fine with me. I just remind you of not translating it into German Schuld then, but rather keep the English technical term because otherwise we would have the same problem again why this ticket does exist.

comment:12 Changed 7 years ago by Remy Blank

Resolution: fixed
Status: newclosed

Changed the label to "Blame" in [10743]. The French translation was left at "Annoter" ([10745]), and the German translation was set to "Annotieren" ([10746]). Both are the terms used by TortoiseSVN.

comment:13 in reply to:  12 ; Changed 7 years ago by fbrettschneider@…

Replying to rblank:

…and the German translation was set to "Annotieren" ([10746]). Both are the terms used by TortoiseSVN.

Thanks for the changes. Though I'm unhappy with the German translation because "Annotieren" sounds quite strange in my language. I suspect the TortoiseSVN translator is not a German native speaker. Better would be "Annotation", not only because German is a noun-driven language and menu items primarily are named with nouns. I tend to reopen this ticket.

comment:14 in reply to:  13 Changed 7 years ago by fbrettschneider@…

Replying to fbrettschneider@…:

… "Annotieren" sounds quite strange in my language…

A menu item "Annotieren" (Engl. "to annotate") would 1. let it sound like one can annotate something there but instead one just can read all the "annotations", and 2. it's totally unusual and many people would need to use a dictionary of foreign words.

comment:15 Changed 7 years ago by Remy Blank

Cc: felix.schwarz@… added
Keywords: l10n german added

Felix, as the official maintainer of the German translation, you get to make the decision about comment:13 and comment:14. What say ye?

comment:16 Changed 7 years ago by Steffen Hoffmann

Cc: daniel@… added

Sorry to interfere here, but I've created wiki:TracL10N/DiscussionDe exactly for such a case. Sadly this has not seen any contribution other than mine for 14 months now.

Since there are a number of persons involved with German translation, I'd like to involve more of them, not just the official maintainer, if possible.

I've linked this issue to #5475 for reference as well.

comment:17 in reply to:  16 ; Changed 7 years ago by Felix Schwarz

Replying to shoffmann:

Since there are a number of persons involved with German translation, I'd like to involve more of them, not just the official maintainer, if possible.

Totally agree here. Language is always subject to personal preferences so I'd like not to force these decisions while pushing towards a decision in due time.

However I agree with 13 and 14 that 'Annotieren' should be a noun.

Steffen: Where should we discuss this best? trac-dev? 'markieren' doesn't sound good imho so I'm in favor of a change.

comment:18 in reply to:  17 Changed 7 years ago by Remy Blank

Resolution: fixed
Status: closedreopened

Replying to fschwarz:

However I agree with 13 and 14 that 'Annotieren' should be a noun.

Ok, reopening and reassigning.

comment:19 Changed 7 years ago by Remy Blank

Owner: changed from Remy Blank to Felix Schwarz
Status: reopenednew

comment:20 in reply to:  16 Changed 7 years ago by Steffen Hoffmann

Replying to shoffmann:

I've linked this issue to #5475 for reference as well.

No comment there by now. So Felix, you may just go for the obvious choice 'Annotation' from comment:13 then.

comment:21 Changed 7 years ago by Felix Schwarz

Change committed in r10863 as discussed in 13.

There is one more translation item which I'd like to change:

#: trac/versioncontrol/web_ui/browser.py:465
msgid ""
"Annotate each line with the last changed revision (this can be time "
"consuming...)"
msgstr ""
"Jede Zeile mit der Revision der letzten Änderung markieren (dies kann "
"lange dauern)"

I propose the following translation:

"Letzte geänderte Revision für jede Zeile anzeigen (dies kann lange dauern ...)"

If there are no objections, I'll commit that within a few days and close this ticket.

comment:22 Changed 7 years ago by anonymous

"Jede Zeile mit der Revision der letzten Änderung versehen (kann lange dauern…)"

comment:23 Changed 7 years ago by Felix Schwarz

I wanted to avoid 'Revision der letzten Änderung' – the meaning of that is a bit unclear to me. Do you think different?

comment:24 in reply to:  23 Changed 7 years ago by anonymous

Replying to fschwarz:

I wanted to avoid 'Revision der letzten Änderung' – the meaning of that is a bit unclear to me. Do you think different?

I think the translation job is to find a good appropriation of the original words, but if you dislike the phrase, what about "Jede Zeile mit der Version benennen, mit der sie geändert wurde (welches lange dauern kann)"

comment:25 Changed 7 years ago by fbrettschneider@…

Still anything missing here?

comment:26 in reply to:  21 ; Changed 7 years ago by framay <franz.mayer@…>

Replying to fschwarz:

I propose the following translation:

"Letzte geänderte Revision für jede Zeile anzeigen (dies kann lange dauern ...)"

If there are no objections, I'll commit that within a few days and close this ticket.

Sounds good to me, but I haven't found the place where Trac prints it (so maybe I miss the context).

Is it really only "anzeigen"? Since annotate means "kommentieren" / "annotieren" (see leo). If not only showing is meant I would propose a slightly different translation to be conform with the English verb annotate:

"Letzte geänderte Revision für jede Zeile annotieren (dies kann lange dauern ...)"

comment:27 in reply to:  26 Changed 7 years ago by fbrettschneider@…

Replying to framay <franz.mayer@…>:

…(so maybe I miss the context)

It's a tooltip of the menu item "Annotation". Since tooltips are used to explain in other words, I wouldn't use "annotieren" to explain "Annotation". What you actually do is to provide information for each code line about its latest version (revision number, author, comment) which is displayed=="anzeigen".

I suggest a slightly changed version of 22:

"Jede Zeile mit Information zur Revision ihrer letzten Änderung versehen (kann lange dauern...)"

comment:28 Changed 7 years ago by Christian Boos

Psst, Felix! ;-) Last ticket for 0.12.3 …

comment:29 Changed 7 years ago by Felix Schwarz

Resolution: fixed
Status: newclosed

ok, I committed the change in r10916

The final phrase is

Jede Zeile mit der Revision ihrer letzten Änderung anzeigen (dies kann lange dauern ...)

reasoning:

  • "mit Information zur Revision ihrer letzten Änderung" sounds too complicated, however I like 'ihrer letzten Änderung', the English phrase also only mentions "revision" and not the other information
  • it's "anzeigen" because that's what happens, no need for "annotieren"/"versehen"
  • "(dies kann lange dauern …)" → literal translation from English, "(kann lange dauern …)" is too informal IMHO

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