IRC logs should be accessible from main trac.edgewall.org menu

[ilias@…]

The public discussions on the trac irc channel are logged.

As this is a central resouces subjecting trac development, the logs should be available from a direct link out of the main-menu of trac.edgewall.org

[Christian Boos]

Well, see IrcChannel, look for archive and pay attention to the "unofficial" word.

As we don't control the archive or attach any official meaning to it ("official" discussions happen on trac-dev), there's no need to emphasize that link.

[ilias@…]

Replying to cboos:

Well, see IrcChannel, look for archive and pay attention to the "unofficial" word.

pay attention: "unofficial" subjects the archive.

As we don't control the archive or attach any official meaning to it ("official" discussions happen on trac-dev),

This information is not correct.

• The irc itself is an 'official' resource
• Many development discussions happen on the irc (which do not happen on trac-dev).

there's no need to emphasize that link.

I think there is a need

• to make a central development resource more visible.

(This ticket subject project resouces and transparency, reopening to enable review of further team-members and project-lead)

[Tim Hatch <trac@…>]

I'm not a team member but I will say I much prefer trac-dev over an IRC channel for anything that will be of use to me beyond a day from now. I do not intend to read over days worth of logs when I already keep up with the timeline on t.e.o and trac-dev.

The IrcChannel page specifically says

…for informal Trac discussions, asking questions or just hanging out and "socializing".

(emphasis added). I think the current solution works fine.

[ilias@…]

Replying to Tim Hatch <trac@timhatch.com>:

I'm not a team member but I will say I much prefer trac-dev over an IRC channel for anything that will be of use to me beyond a day from now. I do not intend to read over days worth of logs when I already keep up with the timeline on t.e.o and trac-dev.

I agree with you.

but several mailing-list topics were continued within the IRC (cannot point you to those,the archive is down).

The IrcChannel page specifically says

…for informal Trac discussions, asking questions or just hanging out and "socializing".

(emphasis added). I think the current solution works fine.

This is the theory.

The developers do not comply alway to this rule (discussing development stuff within the informal resource).

[maz]

The developers are not politicians. If they want to chat on IRC, there's no reason they should have to log all this on t.e.o. There are logs available on the internet for that, so use them. T.E.O. is for concise, official information. IRC is for chat. There are a lot of off-topic things on IRC… and I loathe off-topic like you can't imagine. I'm sure you do, too.

[ilias@…]

Replying to maz:

The developers are not politicians. If they want to chat on IRC, there's no reason they should have to log all this on t.e.o. There are logs available on the internet for that, so use them. T.E.O. is for concise, official information. IRC is for chat. There are a lot of off-topic things on IRC… and I loathe off-topic like you can't imagine. I'm sure you do, too.

I have stated the rationale: IRC contains many discussions subjecting development. Summaries are *not* posted on the development-list or of development-plans. Thus, the only way to follow the development-decisions is to review the logs. That's why the log's are a central resource of this project. Thus they should have higher visibility (direct link).

("maz", please do not close tickets in that way.)

(This ticket subject project resouces and transparency, reopening to enable review of further team-members and project-lead)

[Peanut Gallery]

It's not just the Irc Chat!

The trac developers could be discussing trac within their private email accounts. Thus, those accounts *must* be posted publicly so we may all read them.

But wait! They might have a phone conversation about trac, thus we *must* be able to bug their telephones and cell phones.

Oh no! Then the trac developments might resort to sending mail or instant messengers or other forms of communications. They *must* be stopped. We must force the trac developers to post all of their thoughts and communications to trac.

. . .

You can see how ridiculous this is. This ticket should be closed.

[Noah Kantrowitz <coderanger@…>]

Replying to ilias@lazaridis.com:

Summaries are *not* posted on the development-list or of development-plans. Thus, the only way to follow the development-decisions is to review the logs. That's why the log's are a central resource of this project. Thus they should have higher visibility (direct link).

I think you just volunteered to email summaries of #trac on a regular basis. I, for one, am looking forward to it.

[ilias@…]

Replying to Peanut Gallery:

It's not just the Irc Chat!

…

You are right.

You can see how ridiculous this is. This ticket should be closed.

The should provide "working plans" or "development plans".

Nothing special.

[Peanut Gallery]

The should provide "working plans" or "development plans".

Exactly! Yes they should! They *must* provide a roadmap of future versions and the functionality to be included in those releases!

Oh, but they are doing that. So again, this ticket should be closed.

[ilias@…]

Replying to Peanut Gallery:

The should provide "working plans" or "development plans".

Exactly! Yes they should! They *must* provide a roadmap of future versions and the functionality to be included in those releases!

you mean those giga-milestones? (see #4236)

Oh, but they are doing that.

No, they aren't.

As an simple example, the setuptool migration status is undocumented.

So again, this ticket should be closed.

yes. after providing an searchable archive to the irc-logs, thus interested parties can at least search for the missing development documentation themselves.

[Matthew Good]

A link to the logs has been added to the IRC channel's topic and I've added a link to IrcChannel on WikiStart.