Translation of Trac to Dutch/Nederlands [nl_NL]

[asmodai@…]

This ticket should be used to coordinate the translation to Dutch. See source:trunk/trac/locale/nl/LC_MESSAGES/messages.po​

[asmodai@…]

See also TracTermsNl.

[jruigrok]

First version is at source:sandbox/i18n/trac/locale/nl_NL/LC_MESSAGES/messages.po

[info@…]

Replying to jruigrok:

First version is at source:sandbox/i18n/trac/locale/nl_NL/LC_MESSAGES/messages.po

That sandbox seems to be removed and it looks like source:trunk/trac/locale/nl_NL/LC_MESSAGES/messages.po is the correct link now.

[jruigrok]

Het grote probleem blijft altijd hoeveel in het Nederlands te vertalen en hoeveel in het Engels te laten staan. Persoonlijk ben ik een groot voorstander van zoveel mogelijk Nederlands te gebruiken, behalve bij termen die zo gangbaar zijn in het dagelijkse bedrijfsleven dat het gebruik van een Nederlandse term, als die al zou bestaan, het juist verwarrend wordt.

[ronalde]

Some additions based on revision 7669

[ronalde]

additional translations based on rev7669

[ronalde]

changeset

[jruigrok]

Committed in r7735.

Dank je.

[trac@…]

newer version of dutch messages

[jruigrok]

Committed in r8389.

Ik heb backup-en naar backuppen omgezet daar het in de Van Dale als zodanig erkend wordt.

[joost <macjoost@…>]

fixed typo's and some changes in translation

[Laurens Holst <laurens.nospam@…>]

Many corrections and additions

[Laurens Holst <laurens.nospam@…>]

I just completely reviewed the Dutch localisation, and added a patch with many corrections and additions. I hope someone is following this ticket and can check it in for me :).

Terminology-wise I’d say it’s mostly fine, I just made these changes:

• ‘Arguments’ whose translation appeared once as ‘Argumenten’ I translated to ‘Parameters’.
• ‘Directory’ was sometimes, sometimes not translated to ‘Directory’, I translated this to ‘Map’.
• ‘Parent directory’ whose translation appeared a few times as ‘Hoofdmap’ I translated to ‘Map omhoog’, which in the context made enough sense, while the original translation is as far as I know not really a common term for parent directory, but rather means ‘primary folder’.
• As translation for ‘View’, ‘Show’ and ‘Browse’, instead of ‘Bekijk’ and ‘Toon’ I used ‘Weergeven’. So ‘Bekijk Nieuwste Revisie’ became ‘Nieuwste revisie weergeven’.
• I translated ‘Query’ as ‘Zoekopdracht’ and variations thereof. Most of the cases where query was used were actually still untranslated.

Generally spoken I think you achieved a good mix between translating terms and leaving some in English where there isn’t really an established Dutch alternative. Especially ‘Changeset’ is a difficult one, but aside from leaving it English I think the best Dutch translation was chosen.

Some style remarks that I think are good to have written down for future reference:

• In Dutch localisations it is common practice to put the verb at the end, so ‘Create ticket’ should not be ‘Maak ticket aan’ but ‘Ticket aanmaken’. Note that this wasn’t an example that was actually there :), and I missed a bunch of those as well. E.g. ‘Follow copies’/‘Volg kopieën’ should be ‘Kopieën volgen’, those are left to address another time.
• Addressing the user should IMO be done with ‘u’, not ‘je’ (this occurred a couple of times). Computers shouldn’t address you informally.
• Please shouldn’t be translated, because in English it is used way too often ;p (but I don’t think I saw that, so that’s great).

Also I corrected a lot of compounds (samenstellingen) which should be written together, most priminently ‘Start pagina’ → ‘Startpagina’ and ‘Revisie geschiedenis’ → ‘Revisiegeschiedenis’. Please do pay attention to those because it looks sloppy :).

If after applying this patch someone wants to regenerate the file with Babel (or at least, that is how I gather it works), I also don’t mind taking care of any new or changed strings, looks like the previous version is a couple of months old so there are probably some changes.

[cboos]

Replying to Laurens Holst <laurens.nospam@…>:

If after applying this patch someone wants to regenerate the file with Babel (or at least, that is how I gather it works), I also don’t mind taking care of any new or changed strings, looks like the previous version is a couple of months old so there are probably some changes.

Indeed ;-)

I'll do an update after committing your patch. As you can see, this process is far from ideal, and we can certainly do better in the future so that translators can always work on the latest catalog file, without having to do crazy stuff like huge commits of automatic updates for all catalogs after every extraction.

One option would be to use ​Transifex, the other would be providing svn accounts for translators, etc. If you have not already done so, you should join the Trac-dev MailingList (see ​Trac i18n and Transifex) and participate to the discussion.

[cboos]

nl_NL_messages.po.patch​ committed as r9009.

I also fixed a few "syntax" errors, in order to make msgfmt works.
Not everyone has the Python tools available and it might be possible to work with the standard gettext tool chain. At least, Transifex uses msgfmt to get the statistics, and such errors make your coverage drop to 0%, not nice ;-)

Also, at r9012, you now have a fresh nl messages.po file to play with ;-)

[Laurens Holst <laurens.nospam@…>]

Thanks for the quick response!

I’m about one-thirds through the new file, also making some more improvements to the existing strings, but it’s getting a quite late so I’ll continue another time :).

One technical problem with the localisation is that strings like these (in about.html): “as well as in the <tt>COPYING</tt> file included in the distribution.</p>” result in separate strings like these: “as well as in the” ‘COPYING” “file included in the distribution.”.

The problem here is that in Dutch, you have to write a dash between ‘COPYING’ and ‘file’, like so: “COPYING-bestand”. However as the space is not included in the third string, when I add the dash there will still be a space inbetween.

It’s not a huge deal, but nevertheless thought it would be good to report it.

[Laurens Holst <laurens.nospam@…>]

This string is a bit problematic:

#: trac/templates/diff_div.html:69 trac/ticket/templates/ticket.html:88
#: trac/versioncontrol/templates/changeset.html:37
msgid "to"
msgstr ""

Because in changeset.html it should be translated as ‘tot’ whereas in ticket.html and diff_div.html it should be translated as ‘naar’.

[Laurens Holst <laurens.nospam@…>]

More corrections and additions

[Laurens Holst <laurens.nospam@…>]

Heh, that was more work than I expected :). But it’s done now, see attached patch.

Some notable changes: instead of ‘omschrijving’ I now use ‘beschrijving’, which is more common (hedendaags) Dutch. Other changes are ‘tijdslijn’ → ‘tijdlijn’, ‘syntax highlighting’ → ‘syntaxiskleuring’, ‘permissies’ → ‘rechten’, and a lot of putting the verb at the end and using the infinitive form for commands.

Cleaned up the ‘,fuzzy’-annotations too.

One thing I’m a bit puzzled about is the ‘View attachment’ string @ trac/templates/macros.html:153... It disappeared from the messages.po file, but it seems to still be there in the English original file...

[cboos]

new_nl_NL_messages.po.patch​ committed as r9033.

The problem with View attachment sounds like a regression, possibly when the whole thing got wrapped in a i18n:msg directive. I'll check that in two weeks, along with the comment:19 problem, when I'll be back from holidays ;-)

[Laurens Holst <laurens.nospam@…>]

Cool, thanks. Also, could you let me know when there is string freeze for 0.12 (if there hasn’t been already) and I’ll be happy to take care of any changes. Happy holidays :).

[Laurens Holst <laurens.nospam@…>]

Tijdslijn → tijdlijn

[Laurens Holst <laurens.nospam@…>]

Oh, one more patch, as I apparantly forgot to regenerate the previous patch after I made the timeline translation change.

[Laurens Holst <laurens.nospam@…>]

Tijdslijn → tijdlijn + 100% Transifex score

[Laurens Holst <laurens.nospam@…>]

Not to be outdone by the French, I also fixed two remaining things that prevented the Dutch localisation from scoring a 100% on Transifex :).

[ronalde <r.v.engelen@…>]

Laurens, Christian, jruigrok (Jan?) and others; thanks for the fantastic work! After 3 years of anticipation I'm so glad I can finally offer a Dutch version to our users.

A few issues of personal taste;

• In the past I really put effort in getting the term ticket replaced by melding in our (spoken) vocabulary
• I don't like the term commentaar (toevoegen); I'd prefer opmerking (toevoegen)

I applied both to a personal fork which of course can be made available here if anyone would want it.

About the translation process and platform; we could use Ubuntu's launchpad. The biggest advantage is the possibility for non-geeks to participate using the online editors.

Thanks again!

[cboos]

Replying to Laurens Holst <laurens.nospam@…>:

Not to be outdone by the French, I also fixed two remaining things that prevented the Dutch localisation from scoring a 100% on Transifex :).

That was some time ago ... ;-) Patch applied in [9415], sorry for the delay.

[cboos]

Laurens, any chance for an update before 0.12b1 tomorrow evening?

[Laurens Holst <laurens.nospam@…>]

Bas, try to not change strings that are split across multiple lines. E.g.:

msgid ""
"You appear to be using the PHP CGI binary. Trac requires the CLI version "
"for syntax highlighting."
msgstr ""
"Het lijkt erop dat u de PHP CGI-binary gebruikt. Trac heeft de CLI-versie"
" nodig voor syntaxiskleuring."

Was changed to:

msgid "You appear to be using the PHP CGI binary. Trac requires the CLI version for syntax highlighting."
msgstr "Het lijkt erop dat u de PHP CGI-binary gebruikt. Trac heeft de CLI-versie nodig voor syntaxiskleuring."

Which is identical, except for the formatting.

This just makes me have to double-check these strings even though they didn’t change, and in fact, I think the tools require these longer strings to be split up on multiple lines (see comment 17).

Also for some reason your version of Babel puts each source file location on separate lines:

#: tracopt/ticket/deleter.py:69
#: tracopt/ticket/deleter.py:82

Whereas mine puts them on the same line:

#: tracopt/ticket/deleter.py:69 tracopt/ticket/deleter.py:82

This results in more unimportant differences when comparing.

(Tbh. I’m not a huge fan of this Babel, as it adds a lot of unrelated changes to files when comparing (line numbers etc.). Regenerating them helps, but still...)

[Laurens Holst <laurens.nospam@…>]

Replying to ronalde <r.v.engelen@…>:

• I don't like the term commentaar (toevoegen); I'd prefer opmerking (toevoegen)

This was also noted by Bas here ​http://www.transifex.net/projects/p/trac/team/nl/discussion/53/

Let’s go for ‘opmerking’.

[Laurens Holst <laurens.nospam@…>]

I created here a Mercurial repository, to get some revision control:

​http://hg.grauw.nl/trac-nl/

Here is Bas’ messages.4.po:

​http://hg.grauw.nl/trac-nl/rev/719cbbb3359d

Here’s the file regenerated (reformatted) with Babel:

​http://hg.grauw.nl/trac-nl/rev/60c6d0ac99d2

Here is my first set of corrections based on initial review:

​http://hg.grauw.nl/trac-nl/rev/00ddf3a4644b

Here is the change from ‘commentaar’ to ‘opmerking’:

​http://hg.grauw.nl/trac-nl/rev/505717722c00

[Laurens Holst <laurens.nospam@…>]

More changes:

​http://hg.grauw.nl/trac-nl/rev/551a9f5be837

• Consistente toepassing van infinitieven
• Consistentie in vertaalde termen (completed, status, due date, edit)
• Correcte meervoud van jaar en uur (2 jaar geleden ipv. 2 jaren geleden)
• Juiste samenstelling van zinnen met %(create)s (‘aanmaken’)
• Verwijder ‘de’ en ‘waarde’ uit zinnen met %(field)s (mijlpaal/component/versie/etc.)
• Enkele hoofdletters

That’s it for today…

Bas, let’s see if between us we can get rid of the fuzzys (highest priority IMO) and untranslated strings before the final release.

If you’re familiar with Mercurial you can clone my repository... Otherwise, you can find ​my latest raw messages.po file here, and at least you can use the web UI to review my changes if you want. I will also attach the latest version of messages.po (including your changes) to this bug shortly.

[Laurens Holst <laurens.nospam@…>]

Latest messages.po (rev 3448362b8e5c), includes trbs’s changes

[Laurens Holst <laurens.nospam@…>]

Oh, one more thing, Bas:

msgid ""
"Powered by [1:[2:Trac %(version)s]][3:]\n"
"        By [4:Edgewall Software]."
msgstr ""
"[1:[2:Trac %(version)s]][3:]\n"
"        Ontwikkeld door [4:Edgewall Software]."

What do you think about translating ‘Powered by’ to ‘Aangedreven door’? That’s what we use in Firefox… But I remember there was some controversy about it, and I think it’s fine to omit it as well…

[trbs <trbs@…>]

I was looking for a translation for that :)

Personally I don't mind either way. The thing (for me) is that these tag-lines just sound wrong to me in Dutch. It's not as powerful or strong as the English version. More the otherway around, it sounds cheap and cheesy to me in Dutch.

I would leave this up for vote :)

For me: +0 Don't mind either way, "aangedreven door" is fine by me.

[trbs <trbs@…>]

Changelog: do we use the English word as a Dutch term ? or translate it with something like: "Wijzigings history"

[Laurens Holst <laurens.nospam@…>]

Yes that’s what I did. When a good Dutch translation is not immediately obvious to me (like ‘repository’, ‘change log’, etc.) I generally stay on the safe side and use the English for the time being.

But if you think it’s an acceptable translation, go ahead. Please take care of spaces in compounds though; ‘wijzigingsgeschiedenis’ is one word :) (​http://www.onzetaal.nl/advies/samenstelling.php).

[Laurens Holst <laurens.nospam@…>]

Replying to Laurens Holst <laurens.nospam@…>:

Yes that’s what I did. When a good Dutch translation is not immediately obvious to me (like ‘repository’, ‘change log’, etc.) I generally stay on the safe side and use the English for the time being.

Though for change log I could’ve been a little more imaginative, I tend to be conservative (while at the same time trying to not use too much English terms) because in the past I encountered overzealous translations which for example translated ‘pop-up window’ as ‘opduikvenster’, and that definitely crosses a line :).

[trbs <trbs@…>]

Well; I prefer not to translate things when they are used as terms in English. Indeed we don't want 'electrische-post', 'opduikvensters' of dergelijken :)

But what about consistency ? Because then changeset could also remain changeset instead of 'wijziging'.

[Laurens Holst <laurens.nospam@…>]

Replying to trbs <trbs@…>:

But what about consistency ? Because then changeset could also remain changeset instead of 'wijziging'.

Well, when you go by the rule of “when they are used as terms in English”, that would indeed be an inconsistency. But the downside of that is that you will end up with a translation containing a lot of English terms, which isn’t really nice either. Also what is the definition of ‘term’, e.g. is ‘version’ a term in the context of revision control systems?

[Laurens Holst <laurens.nospam@…>]

I just checked in my and Bas’ latest changes in r9716 and r9717.

This corresponds with all changes up to ​this Mercurial changeset, in which all fuzzies and missing strings should now be translated. They could still use a review and corrections though.

[Laurens Holst <laurens.nospam@…>]

(Hopefully in time for RC1)

[trbs <trbs@…>]

updated dutch translations

[Laurens Holst <laurens.nospam@…>]

Thanks! Committed to the trunk. Also made some corrections and additional translations (see ​http://hg.grauw.nl/trac-nl/rev/99bfbeb23bab and ​http://hg.grauw.nl/trac-nl/rev/ac77c171bd8c).

[anonymous]

How do I get Dutch translation in trac 0.11.7 with messages.po and messages-js.po exactly? Thanks.

[cboos]

You don't. i18n comes with Trac 0.12, you can't make it work on 0.11.x.

[thijstriemstra]

against 0.12 stable r10711

[thijstriemstra]

Filled blanks for new messages with attached messages.7.po​.

[cboos]

Replying to thijstriemstra:

Filled blanks for new messages with attached messages.7.po​.

Thanks! But the new translations are still marked as "fuzzy" and besides they contain several errors, please check to output of make compile-nl.